Comments on In Spring it is the Dawn: 'The Housekeeper and the Professor' Discussion (JL...

Claire - When explained like that, it reall...

2010-02-16T23:47:38.580+09:00

Claire - When explained like that, it really is a lovely equation, isn't it? :)

Amanda - The math is still pretty beyond me but I like the sentiment behind it, at least what I think it means. :)

Interesting...Thanks for the information! That who...

2010-02-12T01:04:59.649+09:00

Interesting...Thanks for the information! That whole formula is almost incomprehensible to me...

Thanks for the update, Nat! That is so interesting...

2010-02-11T19:06:18.028+09:00

Thanks for the update, Nat! That is so interesting and completely understandable now. I like the relation of math to the word and how you can take apparently arbitrary numbers (people) and connect them in a universal way.

I hope you guys subscribed to follow-up comments s...

2010-02-11T13:03:06.305+09:00

I hope you guys subscribed to follow-up comments so you'll see this.

Last weekend H and I watched the movie of The Housekeeper and the Professor, which is actually called 'The Professor's Beloved Equation', a more literal translation of the book's original title. There were some changes to the original story but it was pretty good. One notable difference was that the movie is told as a flashback almost, told from the perspective of Root as a grown man, a math teacher, to his class of students about why he came to love math. So occasionally in the movie, the story would return to the "present" where Root, the teacher, would explain some of the math concepts to his students. I thought this was a good way to make the math even more accessible.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to mention all this is because this is how the movie explained Euler's Formula.

Paraphrasing somewhat...

"i" is the square root of -1 and an imaginary number that never shows itself.

π (pi), a number that continues to the end of the universe.

The value of "e" is 2.7182818284....
Just like pi it goes on and on and on forever. It's an irrational number.

From an infinite universe, pi and e come together with i. None of them are connected. But if a single human adds just one thing, the world is transformed. The contradiction is resolved to zero.

Euler found a natural relationship between apparently unrelated numbers.

What at first appears complicated becomes nothing.

-->So I think in terms of the story, the formula basically represents the relationship between the housekeeper, her son, the professor, the sister-in-law. How unrelated, completely different people are brought together to create a beautiful relationship. This also reflects back to the professor explaining about the amicable numbers, the housekeeper's birthday and the number on his watch being a wonderful connection between them.

Also that even though at first the relationship might seem complicated, or unlikely, in fact it is quite natural.

Does all of that make sense?

gnoegnoe - Also, to add to your discussion of 'root' and 'carrot', the math term root in Japanese is actually just said as the English "root" [ruuto]. ;)

Oops. I just realized I never got back here to re...

2010-02-06T01:28:32.792+09:00

Oops. I just realized I never got back here to reply to your comments.

Rebecca - I'm totally not a math person either. The book didn't suddenly make me interested in it but, like you, I did appreciate the beauty of it.

As for Euler's equation, I think what Michelle says about it having no value as being key. Maybe it's too straightforward, but perhaps the professor saying an equation that results in 0 was the same as saying the sister-in-law's concerns about the housekeeper also had no value?? In other words, there was no reason for her to worry.

claire - No problem, you're welcome to comment anytime. There's no time limit to the discussion.
I actually have no idea what the themes are in The Diving Pool, but as I have a copy I'll just have to read it to find out. :)
I'm hoping to try to watch the movie in the near future, and will report back if I do.

gnoegnoe - Interesting! No, in Japanese the words for 'root' and 'carrot' are different. 'Root' is kon, while 'carrot' is ninjin. Nice idea though. :P

Thanks so much everyone for joining in the discussion!

OI! I have a sudden question that I hope to get a ...

2010-02-04T02:53:59.625+09:00

OI! I have a sudden question that I hope to get a reply at from those of you that can read Japanese -- or know how to find the answer in another way.

In Dutch the word for 'root' and 'carrot' are the same: wortel. In English obviously they're not ;) But... how about Japanese? If it's the same word (character) it might be interesting to think about the Professors love for the root sign and 'Root', the Housekeeper's son, as opposed to his dislike of eating carrots... (and the Housekeeper's efforts to make him eat them anyway). Then they would both be able to do magic with their own sort of 'wortel' ;)

A bit far-fetched, I know, but I do wonder about it!

Sorry for coming late into the discussion. I actua...

2010-01-29T13:29:05.932+09:00

Sorry for coming late into the discussion. I actually posted my thoughts last weekend, here, but have not had the time to go back and reply to the comments yet, and read the other posts.. but will do so later. :)

Anyway, to answer your questions.
Yes, I liked it. A lot.
I thought the translation was fine, it felt much like a Japanese novel, like other translations I've read, so it must have succeeded. :)
This was my first Ogawa, and I'm not sure if I'd like to read The Diving Pool, though some say it's better, but not sure if I'd like the themes she uses there. I chose to read this one because I love mathematics very much.
I didn't know there was a movie, but would like to see it now. :)
I thought it was similar in feel to other Japanese novels I've read.. very quiet and subtle and a lot of depth. I loved it.

Thanks for hosting!!

Rebecca: I can't be sure, but I think it's...

2010-01-28T19:23:48.541+09:00

Rebecca: I can't be sure, but I think it's because 0 in itself is significant. Like, it's a number, but it has no value. But without '0' as a figure, we don't ever get 10 or 100 or so on and so forth. It is something, and it is nothing at the same time.

I see you found my review! Sorry it's taken me...

2010-01-26T21:53:04.111+09:00

I see you found my review! Sorry it's taken me a day to get back here.

I too am not a math person so what I liked was the aspect that showed how math is so beautiful. I have never thought that before. LOL.

I still don't get Euler's equation: why is going back to 0 a significant thing? I like the quote and I like the concept but I still don't QUITE get it I don't think. I did read these comments.

Anyway, I did enjoy it and I'm really looking forward to reading more JLit. Thanks Tanabata (and I love learning the significance of you screen name!)

Amanda - Ah, I can understand that. I know...

2010-01-26T11:32:19.405+09:00

Amanda - Ah, I can understand that. I know I've read other books where the characters weren't named but of course the titles are escaping me at the moment.

I had a terrible Algebra teacher in Grade 11 and he instilled my hatred of math. But if you happen to be talking with your brother... :)

Claire - That's a good point about the equation referring back to their earlier discussion about the importance of zero.

Kristen - Thanks for your link.

Gnoe - True, the characters are still defined by who they are. Japanese names are a lot of fun, they always have a meaning that was carefully considered before given to a new baby.

Michelle - It seems that the movie hasn't been released in the US or other English-speaking countries, at least from what I can gather. I may have to try to watch it in Japanese now that I know the story. I still haven't seen Okuribito or Love Story but plan to once I get my hands on the DVDs with subtitles. It's so ironic that I usually have to buy Japanese movies from outside Japan to be able to watch them.

Thanks for the quote, that does make sense.

And yes, Japanese literature (and movies) do tend to have a certain subtlety and quietness about them. The fact that the relationships were left somewhat ambiguous reflects real life in a way, I think. Relationships are rarely uncomplicated and easily defined.

I posted about my thoughts on the book HERE.

First, I did not know that there's a movie based on this book. I'm definitely interested in watching it, especially if it was made by the Japanese, because movies like Okuribito and Love Story have convinced me that the Japanese are excellent in making subtle movies that just move people.

On about the book.

I love you question about Euler's Formula. I didn't quite get it in the beginning either, but when you asked the question, I thought I'd look through the book again. There's a paragraph on p.127:

"A number that cycled on forever and another vague figure that never revealed its true nature now traced a short and elegant trajectory to a single point... Everything resolved into nothing, zero."

I think that's probably why the equation was so significant. It's like, everything is so never-ending and confusing, and seemingly unrelated to each other, but yet, with a simple nudge (+1) to the equation, everything is resolved beautifully. That's what I think.

I think the nameless characters probably contributed to the story having a very universal feel to it. But I did feel that there was something distinctly Japanese about the way the whole book was done, probably because I've not read many non-Japanese books that can be so successful in being subtle and quiet, but very very interesting.

I actually really like the question 11. It presents mathematics and numbers in form of music and notes. Like how there are basically only 7 notes, and 10 (including 0) numbers, and yet they can produce such magical things like symphonies and beautiful mathematical equations.

6. I do think that Ogawa perhaps did leave it ambiguous on purpose. The way the story was told, it felt like she was happy for us to interpret the relationships between the professor and the widow and the housekeeper in any way we feel comfortable. I felt like if their relationships were more obvious, it might have taken some of the magic away from the relationship between the professor and Root.

Thanks for hosting this discussion Tanabata! (I did think of you straight away when I read about it in the book.) And it is such a coincidence, the significance of the date for you. =)

My review is up too!

It was a really nice book to start the year with; such a gentle story. I believe it shows that people can get to know each other in a intuitive way; so that might even happen with someone you've never met before.

Of course the characters do have names of a sort: they're just descriptive instead of meaningless ornament. But Japanese names are never really nonsensical, are they?

Gnoe

[AARGH Open ID is being difficult; switching to google account]

My review ... http://webereading.com/2010/01/we-c...

2010-01-26T04:03:13.620+09:00

My review ...

http://webereading.com/2010/01/we-called-him-professor.html

Oops! I forgot you asked about the Euler formula. ...

2010-01-26T02:08:33.398+09:00

Oops! I forgot you asked about the Euler formula. Honestly I have no idea what that even is. I say I love math, but I never went any higher than college required courses. I found math fun and easy but not terribly interesting in a long-term way, if that makes sense. My brother's a mathematician, though. If he wasn't in Paris for the next 5 months, I'd ask him for you...

I love the significance of tanabata for you! Thank...

2010-01-26T01:53:03.189+09:00

I love the significance of tanabata for you! Thanks for the explanation.

As for the significance of the Euler formula being used to end the fight ... it is beyond me. Perhaps the equation equaling '0' was the Professor's way of saying that the argument was 'nothing' and echoes back to an earlier conversation between him and the Housekeeper about the importance of the number zero?

The attraction to unnamed characters is actually b...

2010-01-26T01:39:58.794+09:00

The attraction to unnamed characters is actually because I used to write a lot of short stories with unnamed characters. At the time, peers and teachers told me that a story without character names was pointless and would never be published. I was discouraged from not naming. When I heard about this one, it was like proving that my way of writing had been validated and I wanted to see how a different author handled the unnamed aspect.

Claire - You're welcome, but I'm gl...

2010-01-26T01:15:38.397+09:00

Claire - You're welcome, but I'm glad to have had the nudge to read it too.

I wondered about the relationship between the widow and the professor too so that wasn't a surprise. I agree about the housekeeper and the professor. It wasn't a romantic relationship at all in my eyes. It became like caring for an elderly uncle, or a family member at least.

It's been a few years now since I read Out but at the time I thought it read quite smoothly. It was a different translator for Grotesque and I was quite disappointed with that one in comparison. Hmm, maybe I'll have to try another one by Snyder and see what I think.

And yes, fun coincidence. We got married on 'Tanabata' (July 7th) which is why I adopted it as a screen name. :)

Amanda - Well yay for coming over to chat a...

2010-01-26T01:00:14.569+09:00

Amanda - Well yay for coming over to chat about the book. :)

I agree that by not having names the characters were very relatable. I'm interested that them having no names is what attracted you to the book. Do you generally like stories where the characters aren't named?

As for the cultural differences, I'm always unsure whether I just don't notice things because I'm so used to many things here but I also felt that there weren't many obvious differences. Other than a couple of references, to chopsticks, or the Japanese names, for example, it really felt like the story could be taking place anywhere. I really liked that.

OK, being completely math-challenged, I have a question...
I didn't really understand the significance of the equation that the professor wrote down and which made the sister-in-law instantly reverse her opinion on the housekeeper. What was it.. Euler's formula? Can anyone enlighten me?

Here's my review, Nat: http://paperbackreader2...

2010-01-26T00:05:24.357+09:00

Here's my review, Nat: http://paperbackreader2.blogspot.com/2010/01/house-keeper-professor.html

I thought the novel was beautiful and thank you for giving me the prompt to read it.

I noticed that the characters were all nameless and that interestingly there were only four of them (including the Widow but not including the Housekeeper's boss); I thought that this added an intimacy and closeness, emphasising the familial connections.

I predicted the relationship between the Professor and the Widow so, yes, I think there are hints. I also think that the Housekeeper and the Professor's relationship was chaste but that there was such a tenderness there, an intimacy that was closer than a sexual one, a love that was platonic but full of admiration and sympathy and closeness.

I didn't realise that the translator was the same one as that of Out; that surprises me as I have read criticism of the Out translation whereas I thought this was very well done.

I loved discovering in the novel that "Tanabata" is the Star Festival and thought it very appropriate to learn whilst reading a book for a book group you were hosting :).

First, while my review was several months ago, I&#...

2010-01-25T23:58:47.041+09:00

First, while my review was several months ago, I'll still add my link: http://zenleaf.blogspot.com/2009/11/housekeeper-and-professor-by-yoko-ogawa.html

Second, yay for discussing this book! It was one of my very favs of 2009.

Third - questions.

I did enjoy it, and thought the translation was manificent. Obviously I can't compare to the original but I didn't feel anything was lost. I've not read any other books by Ogawa and I didn't even know there was a movie based on this! And this is by far my favorite read in Japanese literature, though I have read relatively few.

Discussion questions (skipping around some):

1. I think them not having names made them more universal and allowed us to connect w/them on a very instinctual level. It was hearing they had no names that attracted me to the book in the first place.

2. I have no idea how she did that. It was brilliantly done and I know I couldn't have done it.

7. I think the two of them working together on the problem helped bring them closer together, and while I don't think that's what the professor intended, I think it was a nice piece worked into the story. The use of math in the story was so elegant and beautiful, as if it were poetry instead of something many people find frustrating.

9. Honestly I was so caught up in the people that I barely noticed the cultural differences. To me, that was one of the best things about the book - highlighting where we're the same.

10. She wrote in a way that it was impossible for me not to stop and see if I could solve the problem before the characters did. Now I like math, so maybe that was just me, but I did feel it pulled me into the story and allowed me to connect with them further.

Thanks again for hosting this!

Well, to start out by answering my own questions.....

2010-01-25T22:11:10.641+09:00

Well, to start out by answering my own questions...

Yes I did really enjoy it which is actually quite an accomplishment in my eyes since math and baseball are two things I'm very much not interested in usually.

I thought the translation read very smoothly. The other translation of Snyder's that I've read is 'Out' by Natsuo Kirino and I thought that one was very well done too. I think I'll purposely be looking out for more of his translations in the future.

This was the first book of Yoko Ogawa's that I've read but I do have 'The Diving Pool' in my TBR and hopefully I'll get to it later this year. I'm certainly looking forward to reading more by her.

I haven't seen the movie but would very much like to now. H saw it in the plane on one of his business trips abroad a couple of years ago or so and said that it was very good. Does anyone know if it's been released in English? According to imdb it seems like it was only released in Japan and South Korea.

Harvee - Thanks for the link to your review...

2010-01-25T21:58:04.997+09:00

Harvee - Thanks for the link to your review, I've added it above.

About the characters not being named, I actually hadn't really noticed which just goes to show that the relationships themselves were the core of the story. I really enjoyed the way their relationship developed despite the obstacle of the professor's memory. Unusual situation indeed.

In my review, I discussed the fact that names are ...

2010-01-25T20:26:07.392+09:00

In my review, I discussed the fact that names are not important in the book, so the main characters, apart from the boy called Root, are only called the Housekeeper and the Professor.

I enjoyed the book because of the unusual circumstances - the setting in which characters show how they can relate positively in spite of restrictions to normal communication.

I also refer to the book as literary fiction versus genre fiction. My review is at The Housekeepre and the Professor, review.

Thanks Tanabata for the chance to discuss this book!